Don’t Call Me Transgender!

Posted on April 2, 2011 at 11:31 am2011-04-02T11:31:59Zg:i a by The Transexual Menace

It is always hard to fight for transgender rights when some of our so-called partners in the LGBT community disenfranchise and marginalize us, but it even more frustrating to see the rifts within our own community.

The Transexual Menace thinks that separatism, but any name, is ugly and repellent. It embodies a ‘me-first and screw the rest’ attitude that should have died in the 1980s. It divides people who should be fighting together for equality and inclusion. The lesbian separatism embodied by Janice Raymond in her book The Transsexual Empire denied and disenfranchised the identity of transsexual women by maligning them as a mindless tool of the privileged male society created to corrupt the purity of womyn sisterhood (personally we think she is a bit paranoid from reading the Stepford Wives too many times).

But it is particularly galling is when one disenfranchised group plays the same power games of separatism toward another group in order to gain the allusion of privilege in the world.

By now, it should be pretty obvious that we are talking about the transsexual separatists. Here is a ripping example of transsexual separatism (and the writer’s complete lack of knowledge of the history of the transgender community)

Ms. MICHELLE ENFIELD: I just want people to understand that as transgendered individuals, we are just human beings and we are trying to make ourselves happy just like everyone else is.

MARTIN: After that conversation, somebody posted this to our online forum: As a transsexual-identified woman, I find the use of the words transgender, transgenderism, gender nonconforming and gender variance highly offensive when applied to me. These are LGBT community buzzwords that should only be applied to their community, not to transsexuals that live outside of it or that aren’t trying to break gender norms. The LGBT community efforts to push this word to include all transsexuals is shameful. She blogs under the name transsexual people aren’t transgendered.

Source: NPR – Tell Me More

Hellooooooooo girlfriend! OMG! You really think that changing your sex is not breaking the cis-gender norms?

We hate to tell you but transsexual people are transgendered. Both of the founders of The Transexual Menace were post-op transsexuals who, before the political popularization of the meme Transgender, saw the need to have an general concept to describe the people who were being disenfranchised by society because of their expression of their gender. They felt that anyone who was marginalized because they failed to conform to society’s expectations of the correct gender expression was naturally a part of the ‘gender community’ as they called it originally. It was this concept of unity, embodied in the Original Charter of the Transexual Menace, that later merged with similar beliefs held by others world-wide giving rise to Transgender as we know it today.

Transgender is our word for ourselves. It has been around since the 70s. LGB didn’t assign it to us nor are they pushing it on us (in fact, some of them wish that T would just go away). Before the creation of LGBT in the mid-90s, we were Transgender.

So here is our message to the transsexual separatists, the self-appointed pure men & women of transsexual-origin who are untainted in any manner of gender queerness and especially by prior marriages or, god forbid, prior children like us mud-bloods. Listen up -

Passing is an illusion. Stealth is an illusion. It is a lie originated by the university clinics in the 70s and is still floating around, still duping people into believing stealth works and that transition is like a rainbow (non-LGBT of course) with a pot of gold at the far-end. Seriously, in today’s age of paranoid national security and computerization, to think you can pass is raging denial. Don’t believe us? Just ask trans-person who was outed by the Social Security Administration because their employer got a warning notice that the employee’s gender didn’t match their records.

But if you want to spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder while wondering if you will get harassed, arrested or even killed for using the ‘wrong’ bathroom, go ahead.

If you want to rely on your ability to pass undetected as your protection from discrimination, harassment and violence, go ahead.

If you think that cis-priv is more important than trans-priv, just keep on thinking that. It is OK.

Just don’t ask the hundreds, if not thousands of murdered transsexuals how well passing worked for them.

And when you are fired after being outed on the job, when you get arrested for using the wrong public accommodation, or when you get beaten for being a guy in a dress (or girl in a suit), come home to us. We will stand with you and express our collective rage. We are The Transexual Menace.

Disclaimer

Unless the author of this post is The Transexual Menace, the opinions expressed by the author as well as those providing comments are theirs alone, and do not reflect the opinions of The Transexual Menace.

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http://www.facebook.com/sadie.ryanne Sadie Ryanne Vashti

Amen.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Tammie-Huber/1594085852 Tammie Huber

I am Transsexual, I am transgender, I am Gay, I do will not hide who I am. But I am more than that and I will champion and speak out for ALL human rights, I am tired of every group having to fight for their scraps. We are all human and everyone of us deserves equal protection and treatment regardless of who we are. I Love ALL people no matter their opinion of me, I know this is right, I can feel it.

chelsea

right on.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Willow-Gallagher/184906494 Willow Gallagher

Yes yes, gender is like the matrix it surrounds us all but if we realize the rules are an illusion we can be free. I started out transsexual and gay, but getting hormones & a diagnosis took too long so I had to do something. I edged my way out, and then one day something clicked I could be whoever I wanted to transitioning in anonymity was no longer an option, I was going to catch hell regardless of what I did. So I took what I had and started doing whatever I felt was comfortable, I dressed an acted as I wished, I was flamboyant and expressive and variable. You know what I happened after I let those distinctions fall away, life became fun and enjoyable, I became a campus personality loved & respected by many, and when I left that campus was irrevocably changed but not more so that myself, hearts and minds were opened but my heart grew so large I became a different person, I found out what it was to be liked and respected by people to have lots of friends. I became Transgender with a sexuality that defies simple description, I realized the rules of the gender matrix & moved beyond them. I know not everyone or even most can do something like this, but I will fight to my last breath so everyone has their CHANCE, REGARDLESS of their group, we’re all equal and everyone deserves their shot at happiness regardless of who they are how they identify or what that happiness is.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1111735383 Cathryn Platine

You seriously need to change the name to transgender menace or something. I was a Tee shirt wearing member back in the day and I totally object to the word transgender. And yes, I not only know the history of the word, I was there as a very activie trans civil rights advocate when the first attempts to shove it down my throat were made. It is a total insult….it demeans and denies the womanhood or manhood of corrected people born transsexed. You write an article under an assumed name and say women like me are the ones hiding?

I fight my own battles……I do not want you speaking for me, get it? There are thousands like me. We almost all do not deny our medical histories but don’t announce it constantly to the world either because we have a fundamental difference of world view than you do…..deconstruct your own gender to your heart’s content but keep your f*ching hands off ours. See, that is the actual problem, you demand everyone respect your right of identity and then don’t get you need to respect ours in return. By far the worst discrimination and hatred I have be subjected to in a long life has been at the hands of transgender terrorists, that speaks volumes doesn’t it?

I don’t know who the hell you are because you aren’t upfront about it…..me, I am open here and elsewhere giving lie to your entire argument.
Anonymous

And I’m one of the thousands that Cathryn is referring to. No “collective” will ever speak for me. No group will lobby in my behalf. I succeed … and fail … on my own. I hate the transgender label and, like Cathryn, find it demeaning and disrespectful. I find it particularly galling that any one person presumes to speak for any other person on the planet.

Who are the separatists here? Those who continually separate themselves from the rest of society with parades, marches, t-shirts, activism, or those of us who live free of group-think and slogan-slinging? No bumper stickers for me, thanks!

I’ll do without.

Sara …
http://www.facebook.com/people/Denise-Norris/100001133926986 Denise Norris

Wow! I came across this statement of transsexual separatism at queerty.com

http://www.queerty.com/why-are-marylands-trans-activists-celebrating-the-death-of-the-gender-identity-anti-discrimination-bill-20110401/#comment-441326
http://www.facebook.com/people/Denise-Norris/100001133926986 Denise Norris

As one of the original founders of the Menace, I wanted to respond to both Sara and Catherine as well as address some other concerns.

I don’t think the article is intending to limit anyone’s choices but simply to point out the seriousness of the divide between the philosophies. It also correctly points out that 100% stealth is simply not possible in the modern world.

For those of us who decide to rely on passing to get by, this means that at some point, we will get outed and that presents a risk that can include violence, discrimination, etc…

Certainly, when that happens, the victim can chose to go it alone or they can come to organizations like the Menace to back them up in a show of solidarity. It is the victim’s choice.

Having been part of the process when ‘Transgender’ was retooled from an exclusionary term into one of inclusion, I have to admin I had concerns about the specific word as well, hence the use of Gender Community in the Menace Charter found on this site. However, I was and remain committed to the concept that we are all seen as breaking the rule of correct gender expression by society and therefore we all need to hang together or surely we will hang alone. For me and I guess that by some transference the Menace, this is how we define Transgender. The Menace is here to stand up for anyone in this population no matter what the label.

And yes, it includes all transsexuals.

Just some direct asides to people -
Catherine: While Riki may have co-founded the Menace with me way back when, she has not been actively guiding for over a decade. Whatever your beef is with her, please feel free to address it directly with her.

Sara: Were you on AOL as Bicycle Chick? Lord Alp ring a bell?

Best of luck to all no matter how they tackle being trans. It is a hard journey for all of us in one way or another.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000938443650 Plum Gurly

100% stealth IS possible, and the goal of every true-TS. Saying it is not possible is a harmful lie. Those who cannot achieve it either have bodies severely damaged from the birth defect, or are facing the consequences of testosterone poisoning. TSs have fought back by transitioning younger and taking hormones at the proper age, and TGs have fought that by recruiting TS girls into the TG boys’ lifestyle at an even younger age. Saying the TG label includes TSs is ever bit as harmful as calling all gay men child molesters. Calling a TS a TG is even worse than calling a Black man “the word,” and is likely to provoke at least the same response. I know of plenty of TSs who have punched or sued others for calling them a TG or saying they are LGBT or part of the TG community.

If you sincerely feel as you do, then you should rename your organization to Transgender Menace. I once supported your group because I assumed that you supported TSs without supporting TGs and LGBTs. Now I find out that the TS in your name is a lie and that you support TGs and LGBTs and put the BEFORE TSs and bend over backwards for them and kiss their….never mind. If a group has TS in the name, it should support ONLY TSs and not TGs. If you believe TG is such a fine umbrella, then drop the TS and use just that. Regardless of the name, you can count me out, since at the heart, you have a TG organization which spreads the same lies that has harmed TSs for years.

TSs don’t break ANY of society’s rules about gender, but CONFORM to them. They have a physical-only problem and are correctly expressing only one gender of two, and the who that conforms to the sex they were supposed to have. TSs are not men defying gender norms to become women, but women born with a birth defect who conform to their correct sex. A TS woman is feminine by birth and nature and was supposed to be raised as a girl and never have a penis. A TG “woman” is a man who was correctly born with a male brain and male genitals, but who chooses to pretend to be a woman, all while keeping his junk for life. Any trouble a TS faces is because she either cannot pass or because she is wrongly lumped in with TGs and other LGBT members. Most trouble a TG faces is due to his own actions, and because of the unfair and hurtful TG lumping, his actions harm genuine TS women too. If his actions harm only himself, that is karma, but his reckless actions wrongly harm TS women too and create a backlash climate which is more likely to harm TSs. TGs create mainstream enemies, but we pay the price.

http://profiles.google.com/jenbaker707 Jenny Baker

Thank you Cathryn. For the record I’m a Transsexual. Not a transgender person. Couldn’t agree more with Cathryn.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1111735383 Cathryn Platine

The Transexual Menace thinks that separatism, but any name, is ugly and repellent. It embodies a ‘me-first and screw the rest’ attitude that should have died in the 1980s. It divides people who should be fighting together for equality and inclusion.

When someone calling themselves the Transexual Menace says this Denise, they do not speak for me or any of us rising up now to fight the transgender agenda of gender terrorism. And when my name is right in front of you, misspelling it can only be taken as a deliberate afront.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Denise-Norris/100001133926986 Denise Norris

You should try not to see boogy-men under the bed Cathryn, your name was mis-spelled because of my spellchecker. Thank you for bringing to my attention.

No one is trying to speak for you. Best of luck to you on your agenda.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1111735383 Cathryn Platine

My “agenda” as a Pagan feminist woman has been womens rights. I don’t want a crossdresser in the stalll next to me anymore than the average woman does because I know, from personal experience, they are dangerous, mysogynostic and gynophobic. I, personally and pretty much single handedly, restored the history of the transsexual priestesses of the ancient world as part of my research on ancient Goddess traditions.

Take your ‘tude and shove it Denise.

http://www.transexualmenace.org The Transexual Menace

Ms Platine:

Direct personalized attacks are frowned upon here. You are free to attack the ideas presented but do not attack the individuals. This is your only warning.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1111735383 Cathryn Platine

typical TG double standard…….what attack? Inferring I’m a paranoid looking under the bed wasn’t a personal attack?

But go ahead and ban me, that’s what you people do, silence anyone who disagrees.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001530616247 Priest Karus

Ah, and calling a group of people “dangerous, misogynistic and gynophobic,” is perfectly acceptable? Pshh, get over yourself.

Denise did not, in any way, insult you. If you took it badly, that is on you, but insulting a group of people, a group of LOVELY people, is insane. You’re the one who completely flipped. Maybe you oughta take a deep breath before you make yourself look even more deranged?
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000938443650 Plum Gurly

Calling TGs as a group misogynistic in a TS-only space is not a personal attack. It is true that most are. We just don’t know which ones, and only a self-hating TG man and not a real TS nor other mainstream woman would consider that an attack.

http://www.facebook.com/dlanetaylor Dana Lane Taylor

Sandeenists Thugs. Bully them if they don’t conform.

http://www.transexualmenace.org The Transexual Menace

Funny that you should mention Autumn as she is not one of our friends. Autumn is a gradualist where as the Menace are more of the ‘go for it all’ types.

We sincerely hope that your path works for you and no ever has to read about another transsexual woman found shot twice and dragged behind a car for 300 feet as happened last month in Arkansas.

Perhaps you will agree that preventing violence against transsexual women is a worthy common cause?

Our only question is that if all transsexual women are quietly living lives as real woman, who is going to stand up for the murder victims?

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1111735383 Cathryn Platine

Given the credible death threats I have received and the carried out attempts to disrupt and out and out destroy every aspect of my life…..I am in ten times more danger of being violently murdered by a full time crossdresser fanatic than a religious nutcase…..

But I’m not all that easy to kill and I shoot back.
http://purplespeaks.wordpress.com/ Stephanie Adams

The best way to prevent violence against TSs is for TSs to irreversibly destroy ties with TGs and point out the differences at EVERY opportunity, and for us all to teach TSs passing skills and to take up surgery funds for those who don’t pass. Most do not hate those with the medical condition of TSism once informed what it is, but the CHOICES of transgenderism and homosexual behavior. EVERY “TS-hater” hates transgenderism and homosexuality, not our medical condition. Mainstream bigots need to see us standing against transgenderism and gayness so they can respect us and realize we are not on opposite teams. I side with the 90% and welcome and appreciate their help, but I welcome *NO* help from anyone who is neither a true-TS (preop or postop) nor a member of the mainstream (anyone not LGBT). TSs taking up for gays because people mistake us for them is like taking up for child molesters because someone spread a lie that you are one, or starting drugs because someone accused you falsely of being an addict.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000938443650 Plum Gurly

I work to prevent violence against actual TSs. TGs are irrelevant to me and the calling of TG activists, not mine. There is a type of TS activism which can be practiced in complete stealth. All postops and stealth TSs should write and educate everyone that TSs are not LGBTs and TGs. The more that TSs get lumped with TGs and LGBTs, the more they will be targets. It is like the TGs deliberately turn the public against TSs so they will be murdered, hoping that will blackmail the rest into joining their cause out of fear of the very thing they caused. That would be like if a woman has a boyfriend and another suitor she doesn’t like assaults her, vandalizes her property, frames her good boyfriend, then presents himself as her savior from her “evil boyfriend.”

True-TSs in stealth can easily write advocacy letters and emails, all without being seen, and they can deliver speeches under pseudonyms. They can hang signs, appear on radio talk shows, write the government, write the worst bigots, and so on. So there is no excuse to not be able to fight for TSs and live in full stealth. Neither has to compromise the other. TSs just need to be clever and creative, and learn how to leverage the power of a few to accomplish more than the LGBT does with their numbers.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000938443650 Plum Gurly

Why do you hate people on the Right so much when TGs act with much more bigotry towards actually TS women? I was with you until you used the hate slur against people on the right. I want to like your post, but I cannot in good conscious like a post with such bigotry and hate in the middle of the last paragraph. That one line damaged the value of your entire post. Other than that, I agree with what you said.

http://www.facebook.com/dlanetaylor Dana Lane Taylor

Charles “Virginia” Prince coined the term transgender so that he could separate cross-dressers from transsexuals.

And do you realize it is inappropriate to use the word “Transgendered”?

http://zackfordblogs.com/2010/05/transgendered-is-not-a-word-stop-using-it/

I don’t agree with GLAAD’s Media Reference Guide but since you are one of the TG-Borg let’s look at this, shall we?

http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender

Problematic: “transgendered”
Preferred: “transgender”
The adjective transgender should never have an extraneous “-ed” tacked onto the end. An “-ed” suffix adds unnecessary length to the word and can cause tense confusion and grammatical errors. For example, it is grammatically incorrect to turn transgender into a participle, as it is an adjective, not a verb, and only verbs can be used as participles by adding an “-ed” suffix.

This article is a harmful one. There are some who wish to go stealth and just live their lives like everyone else.
You are telling them basically that it is a lie. You are telling them that no matter what, they will always be the gender they were physically born with. Think for a bit what kind of damage this can cause a young transsexual who is trying to come to terms with their life.

To all transsexuals who feel they don’t belong in the TG-Borg, unplug and liberate yourselves.
http://www.facebook.com/Indi3r Indi Edwards Roughsedge

I don’t think they have to do anything of the sought. That’s ridiculous. Cary on TM all this hetronormative posturing is wasting valuable bandwidth.
Arianna Empowered Kitty

One of my responses to the above article is, that I myself have successfully (and continue to do so, if I don’t share my past with the wrong elements of any communities ) lived as a woman, in the sense of legal, gender and sex relams. I personally, as a matter of choice, except for a few mature, very accepting, understanding gay, lesbian and bisexual friends who know of my past cross-somatic birth defect, (they do not try to push a culture of “Queerness” on me or anyone else) I do not directly associate with the LGB portion of the population as a group; This is due to past bad experiences with that group as a whole, as I was at the early stage of my medical/physical correction.

For example, I did attend a couple of support groups of Trannsexual concerns for a short time. These were located only in a gay area of the city that I have moved from and left behind to authentically live my life. The general mistreatment of the people of Transsexual-experience who spoke up in San Diego, was both horrendous and subtle. The disrespect of our inherent knowledge of which sex/gender we belonged to, the shouting down and silencing of our concerns and point of view, the near obssesive, constant portrayal of TS-experienced and Transgender people as just “drag queens” was bullshit that was nasty to bear.
some of the gay males AND more than one Gender Queer person would spread rumours about TS-experienced and Trans females, saying that they are really gay males who dress up who desire gay mlaes.
One of those bad experiences included a therapist, whom I saw on a regular basis as I was going throught my corrective transition. She kept insisting that I was “Transgender”, said that “it’s ok to be Third Gender” and that I use that term to describe myself. She kept ignoring the fact that I also Intersex, but fully identifying as a female, having been born with an underdeveloped female uterus and right ovary.
Of course, I never came back to see her. After that, it was interesting to note that 3 other therapists, one of whom wrote my letter for SRS, have said that I had an “extreme case of Transsexuality”.

Two to three times, I’ve travelled from the diverse suburban area I lived in in San Diego, to donate brand new books bought with my own money, that provided accurate education about Trans people, to the LGB (–T–) center located in the “Hillcrest” area of that city. Two to three times, the brand new books disappeared from the shelves never to be seen again. I even once found 3 of the new Trans books in a trash recepticle on the side of the center.

Once, there was a woman’s fair at that center that I bravely attended, only to be caught by surprise by one of the events at that fair. That event was an “open discussion and expression”, some gay, lesbian and other queer people came up on the stage to berate Trans people, to tell them that they are “phony”, “gay males and lesbian women with slef image issues” and “not to alter their bodies”.

(Autumn Sandeen is a member of the Transgender/Queer/Gender-Queer “mafia” in San Diego by the way, I’ve personally known her for years in San Diego).
As for any discrimination, mistreatment and transphobia that I’ve experienced, on the job or in a general social environment, that has occured mostly when I or someone who knows of my past cross-sexed condition. Other than that, I (“pass” as some would call it) blend in and live as a women (myself) in society very well,
I actually came out of full “stealth”, even telling some people where I currently work about my past, in order to contribute to the battle for the Human Rights of Transsexual-experienced and Transgender people as well as even Gender Variant folk.

But, for someone to tell me that my life as woman is just an “illusion”, to unquestioningly use a label of “Transgender” for myself and not to argue, when I in fact did not change my “gender”, I physically aligned my body to my inherent (internal) gender, that I have been since birth is highly ridiculous.
Telling someone that the true blossoming happiness and healing that they’ve finally achieved, by being able to blend in and live as their rightful sex in womanhood or manhood, is nothing but an “illusion” and to “wake up”, sounds very akin to what elements of the LGB community says to and about Trans people, especially people of Transsexual experience.

http://www.transexualmenace.org The Transexual Menace

Arianna – No where in the original post did anyone say that your life is illusion. What was said was that 100% stealth is an illusion. Sooner or later, everyone gets outed somehow. Hopefully it is only a strange look as you go into a restroom or a changing booth. But for some, they pay the ultimate price for being outed. They pay with their life.

The Menace believes that we all need to hang together or we will hang alone. It does not matter what word we use to describe this protective collective, what matters is that we stick together to protect one another.

Some people don’t want that protection… that is OK. There is enough to do already that no one is going to force anyone to accept it. But if and when they need it, the Menace is there for them if they need us. Honestly, if they ever need someone to stand up for them against an injustice by the cis-society, so much the better. Unlike the professional advocates, we would be happy not to have a reason to exist.

We believe everyone has the right to self-identify and form their own associations. For those transsexuals who think they are doing it OK on their own, we salute you and wish you good luck.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000938443650 Plum Gurly

However, 100% stealth is what every true-TS needs and longs for, and what TGs can never understand. It is only an illusion now because that is how the TG community deliberately set it up to be, to strip TSs of the full stealth, mainstream privilege, and assimilation they need, to make them beg for the LGBT to bail them out. That is why we all must educate society that TSs are not TGs. TGs tend to be jealous of TSs, and rather than admit they are not the same, they do things to sabotage the goals of TSs to cut them down to their level. The entire TG movement is testosterone driven, and all so sad. TSism is a birth defect while TGism is merely a recreational choice and a social construct. TGs and TSs can each reach their own distinct goals by going their own ways. TGs find their best allies in the LGBT community, while TS allies are in the general public.

Nicolepn51

Even thought the term ” Transgender” is often demonized in the press, some see it as a badge of honor. Others see it as a passage in life, and go on living as men and women. There are those that believe no one should be stealth because they need some apron strings to hang on. Sadly, some like to write inciting articles just for some type of sick gratification.
http://profiles.google.com/arikitty09 Ari Davis

One of my responses to the above article is, that I myself have successfully (and continue to do so, that is if I don’t share my past with the wrong elements of any communities) lived as a woman for years, in the sense of legal, gender and sex realms. I personally, as a matter of choice, except for a few mature, very accepting, understanding gay, lesbian and bisexual friends and allies who know of my past cross-somatic birth defect, (they do not try to push a culture of “Queerness” on me or anyone else) I do not directly associate with the LGB portion of the population as a group; This is due to past bad experiences with that group as a whole, as I was at the early stage of my medical/physical correction.

For example, I did attend a couple of support groups of Transsexual concerns for a short time. These were located only in a gay area of the city that I have moved from and left behind to authentically live my life. The general mistreatment of the people of Transsexual-experience who spoke up in San Diego, was both horrendous and subtle. The disrespect of our inherent knowledge of which sex/gender we belonged to, the shouting down and silencing of our concerns and point of view, the near obsessive, constant portrayal of TS-experienced and Transgender people as just “drag queens” was bullshit that was nasty to bear.
some of the gay males AND more than one Gender Queer person would spread rumours about TS-experienced and Trans females, saying that they are really “gay males who dress up who desire gay males” if they did not like us individually.

One of those bad experiences included a therapist, whom I saw on a regular basis as I was going throughout my corrective transition. She kept insisting that I was “Transgender”, said that “it’s ok to be Third Gender” and that I use that term to describe myself. She kept ignoring the fact that I also Intersex, but fully identifying as a female, having been born with an underdeveloped female uterus and right ovary.
Of course, I never came back to see her. After that, it was interesting to note that 3 other therapists, one of whom wrote my letter for SRS, have said that I had an “extreme case of Transsexuality”.

Two to three times, I’ve travelled from the diverse suburban area I lived in in San Diego, to donate brand new books bought with my own money, that provided accurate education about Trans people, to the LGB (–T–) center located in the “Hillcrest” area of that city. Two to three times, the brand new books disappeared from the shelves never to be seen again. I even once found 3 of the new Trans books in a trash recepticle on the side of the center.

Once, there was a woman’s fair at that center that I bravely attended, only to be caught by surprise by one of the events at that fair. That event was an “open discussion and expression”, some gay, lesbian and other queer people came up on the stage to berate Trans people, to tell them that they are “phony”, “gay males and lesbian women with self image issues” and “not to alter their bodies”.

(Autumn Sandeen is a member of the Transgender/Queer/Gender-Queer “mafia” in San Diego by the way, I’ve personally known her for years in San Diego).
As for any discrimination, mistreatment and transphobia that I’ve experienced, on the job or in a general social environment, that has occurred mostly when I or someone who knows of my past cross-sexed condition, told other people. Other than that, I (“pass” as some would call it) blend in and live as a women (myself) in society very well.

I actually came out of full “stealth”, even telling some people where I currently work about my past, in order to contribute to the battle for the Human Rights of Transsexual-experienced and Transgender people as well as even Gender Variant folk.
But, for someone to tell me that my life as woman is just an “illusion”, to unquestioningly use a label of “Transgender” for myself and not to argue, when I in fact did not change my “gender”, I physically aligned my body to my inherent (internal) gender, that I have been since birth is highly ridiculous.

Telling someone that the true blossoming happiness and healing that they’ve finally achieved, by being able to blend in and live as their rightful sex in womanhood or manhood, is nothing but an “illusion” and to “wake up”, sounds very akin to what elements of the LGB community says to and about Trans people, especially people of Transsexual experience.
http://profiles.google.com/arikitty09 Ari Davis

Does anyone know how I can change the default profile picture here?

http://www.transexualmenace.org The Transexual Menace

Click the button with the word Discus and select Edit Profile. You can upload a avatar there.

http://profiles.google.com/arikitty09 Ari Davis

One of my responses to the above article is, that I myself have successfully (and continue to do so, that is if I don’t share my past with the wrong elements of any communities) lived as a woman for years, in the sense of legal, gender and sex realms. I personally, as a matter of choice, except for a few mature, very accepting, understanding gay, lesbian and bisexual friends and allies who know of my past cross-somatic birth defect, (they do not try to push a culture of “Queerness” on me or anyone else) I do not directly associate with the LGB portion of the population as a group; This is due to past bad experiences with that group as a whole, as I was at the early stage of my medical/physical correction.

For example, I did attend a couple of support groups of Transsexual concerns for a short time. These were located only in a gay area of the city that I have moved from and left behind to authentically live my life. The general mistreatment of the people of Transsexual-experience who spoke up in San Diego, was both horrendous and subtle. The disrespect of our inherent knowledge of which sex/gender we belonged to, the shouting down and silencing of our concerns and point of view, the near obsessive, constant portrayal of TS-experienced and Transgender people as just “drag queens” was bullshit that was nasty to bear.
some of the gay males AND more than one Gender Queer person would spread rumours about TS-experienced and Trans females, saying that they are really “gay males who dress up who desire gay males” if they did not like us individually.

One of those bad experiences included a therapist, whom I saw on a regular basis as I was going throughout my corrective transition. She kept insisting that I was “Transgender”, said that “it’s ok to be Third Gender” and that I use that term to describe myself. She kept ignoring the fact that I also Intersex, but fully identifying as a female, having been born with an underdeveloped female uterus and right ovary.
Of course, I never came back to see her. After that, it was interesting to note that 3 other therapists, one of whom wrote my letter for SRS, have said that I had an “extreme case of Transsexuality”.

Two to three times, I’ve travelled from the diverse suburban area I lived in in San Diego, to donate brand new books bought with my own money, that provided accurate education about Trans people, to the LGB (–T–) center located in the “Hillcrest” area of that city. Two to three times, the brand new books disappeared from the shelves never to be seen again. I even once found 3 of the new Trans books in a trash recepticle on the side of the center.

Once, there was a woman’s fair at that center that I bravely attended, only to be caught by surprise by one of the events at that fair. That event was an “open discussion and expression”, some gay, lesbian and other queer people came up on the stage to berate Trans people, to tell them that they are “phony”, “gay males and lesbian women with self image issues” and “not to alter their bodies”.

(Autumn Sandeen is a member of the Transgender/Queer/Gender-Queer “mafia” in San Diego by the way, I’ve personally known her for years in San Diego).
As for any discrimination, mistreatment and transphobia that I’ve experienced, on the job or in a general social environment, that has occurred mostly when I or someone who knows of my past cross-sexed condition, told other people. Other than that, I (“pass” as some would call it) blend in and live as a women (myself) in society very well,

I actually came out of full “stealth”, even telling some people where I currently work about my past, in order to contribute to the battle for the Human Rights of Transsexual-experienced and Transgender people as well as even Gender Variant folk.
But, for someone to tell me that my life as woman is just an “illusion”, to unquestioningly use a label of “Transgender” for myself and not to argue, when I in fact did not change my “gender”, I physically aligned my body to my inherent (internal) gender, that I have been since birth is highly ridiculous.

Telling someone that the true blossoming happiness and healing that they’ve finally achieved, by being able to blend in and live as their rightful sex in womanhood or manhood, is nothing but an “illusion” and to “wake up”, sounds very akin to what elements of the LGB community says to and about Trans people, especially people of Transsexual experience.

http://www.transexualmenace.org The Transexual Menace

Ari – We are mystified why everyone is saying that we called their life an illusion. We called passing an illusion and we called stealth an Illusion then presented reasons for that conclusion.

No where did was say that anyone’s life was an illusion.

Girl Inside

Passing and stealth are not illusions when only genuine transsexuals try to. When a feminized man known as a transgender tries to pass as a woman or live stealth, that is when it is an illusion. No true TS can call passing or stealth an illusion, and no TG can truly understand, need, nor appreciate passing nor stealth. True-TSs are supposed to live in the gender binary, TG men in dresses are not.

If you are all going to be such TG loyalists who hate true-TSs and get in their way and prevent them from being treated 100% as born-female women, then you need to rename your organization to Transgender Menace, not play bait and switch to abuse actual transsexuals.

visibile and cool with it

I am transgender and consider myself an ally to men and women of transsexual experience. Your statements here contribute to the false binary you decry. Not all transsexuals who are not transgender are apolitical “traitors to the cause” with a “me-first-and-screw-the-rest” mentality. Just as it’s possible to be a non-trans/cisgender/cissexual ally working to heal misogyny, transphobia, and homophobia, it is possible to do this as someone who is transsexual-not-transgender-because-it-is-a-medical-condition-thanks. When you make someone into the villain, they do not want to help you. When you are not on their side, they don’t want to be on yours. Do some transsexual folks like this drive me crazy? Sure. Do some of them have scads of unexamined internalized transphobia? You bet! (But lots of transgender people do too.) Does any of that mean I should tell them they are really transgender and they should stop fighting it? Um . . . NO. Not everyone who identifies this way is just trying to gain privilege. Not everyone who identifies this way lords it over other people. And those who do these things will not stop doing them when you tell them the best label they have for themselves is in itself a problem. Some people are just trying to express themselves the way that feels best and most accurate to them, to be seen and respected for who they are, etc. Sounds familiar to me.
http://www.transexualmenace.org The Transexual Menace

We realize that this post has become a bit of a Rorschach test with various readers seeing totally different things depending on their perspective and expectations, but we want to remind everyone that at times an inkblot is just, well, an inkblot.

Here are some questions to ponder before adding a comment about this particular inkblot -

1. Was the article addressed to all transsexuals or transsexual separatists?
2. Did we say that their lives were illusions or that passing and stealth are illusions?
3. Did we condemn them for their choices or did we warn them about the dangers of those choices?
4. Did we reject them because of their choices or say that regardless of their choices we would still stand by them if they need us?

We are very interested in reading more commentary as some of us are transsexuals and/or students of psychology. We realize that the variety of interpretations expressed so far represent the wonderful diversity of thought, perceptions and experiences that exist in the community no matter what word we use to label it.

Have a menacingly good day!
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000379048523 Miki Darsha

Stop with the victim complex. Seriously, just stop it. Gay society rose to the point where it was now, because people stopped being paranoid and being victims. Yes, people are still victimized and mistreated. But when you’re different than the average bear, you should expect that.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=694257045 Cameron Delfin Garcia

great article, so are we still considered…”babies came into this world from the womb of a mother, and peed and pooped in our diapers for five years still applicable?” If the answer is “NO” then we are not the “Babies who came into this world from the womb of a mother, and peed and pooped in our diapers for five years.” We are male and female adults.

The same would be in the case of any Transgendered person, Transsexual or not. After we have achieved our target Gender, then we should only be known as “Men or Women.” We worked for that title. The word Transgenderism was the vehicle for which we sought to travel on the Gender highway, and the Transsexual was the label we called ourselves, which allowed us to get the intervention to be who we finally became.

My history is being Transgendered, my travels as a Transsexual are full of highs and lows; but I am now a “Woman”. One that is vibrant, and full of life.
Amym440

I am Amym440 aka transsexual people aren’t transgendered and I made that comment. Let me tell you that your stupid piece doesn’t even begin to represent who I am or how I think accept for one way I am your menace. Everywhere you turn everywhere you post I’ll be there or another sister or brother will be to let mainstream America know the truth. You are no longer relevent and you no longer control the message matter of fact as far as claiming you represent me your fired.
http://purplespeaks.wordpress.com/ Stephanie Adams

True-transsexuals are not a part of the LGBT nor any TG community. TSism is a birth defect that mainstream women have, and nearly always results in surgery and separation from LGBTs. Show me a “TS woman” which wants to keep “her” penis, use it, and support gays/TGs, and I will show you a self-hating transgender man and a pathological liar. Either stop referring to TSs as TGs and LGBTs, or we will do our best to destroy both communities. Either keep TSs separate from TGs/LGBTs, their “rights,” their “support” (interference), their control, and their lumping, or lose the TG and LGBT communities and all the “rights earned.” I only support mainstream people with the birth defect of TSism without supporting TGs, LGBTs, and other perverts. The only way to stop me from fighting LGBTs/TGs is to exclude me from. As long as you forcibly include me, I have the right to take it over and dismantle it from the inside. I successfully sued several people and a newspaper over lying on me and calling me a TG or LGBT member. They were forced to refer to me only as a TS and never on the same page as TGs, shemales, gays, crossdressers.

Nictusempra

How many tribes do we need, really? It’s not yours to define the legitimacy of other people. You don’t want to be part of the group? Cool, that’s easy. Don’t advocate, live stealth, call it a day.

Don’t tell other people that THEIR cause is less legitimate than YOUR cause, though; it smacks of the same kind of privilege that is used to invalidate “true” transsexuals by cisgendered people.

Just a girl

It is not a tribe at all. There are only TWO. TS/Mainstream is one, and TG/Queer is the other. TSs are not a new tribe, but a subset of mainstream life and behavior. A TSs is not a queer/TG man who becomes a woman, but a mainstream woman born with a birth defect.

There are only 2 groups. Someone is either in the medical group (TS/IS) or the lifestyle/choice/recreation/fetish/variance group (TG). It is like with medication. You are either taking it to get better (medical) or to get high (recreational). That is very simple. Maybe all transgenderism which doesn’t result in surgery should be considered a controlled substance. True-TSs had it better when recreational cross-dressing was illegal. The rioters of old harmed true-TSs by opening therapeutic cross-living up to those who didn’t have the medical need to do so. TSs have the need to get surgery (regardless if they ever actually get it), while TGism is gender variance and choice. TSs are mainstream women born wrongly with male parts, while TGs are men correctly born with male parts who “wrongly” choose to live as a gender other than what even their neurology and behavior say they are.

Any “transition” which does not result in HRT, surgery, and 100% assimilation is not legitimate. The TG/queer/variant MEN in drag need to stop including TSs and stop trying to corral the young girls with the birth defect of TSism in with the boys who dress up to play with their junk and defy gender. It is child abuse to lump TS/mainstream children into the same category as TG/queer/fake-TS children. They should have the right to be raised 100% as girls, surgery and HRT ASAP, with no reference to the word TG, no exposure to the TG chosen lifestyle, and a whole life without ever being read or outed – the SAME privileges that ALL other GG women take for granted. TSs have ALL the same needs of GG women while TG men in drag don’t.

True-TSs are cisgendered people and have the SAME right to discredit and exclude TGs, just like ALL cisgendered have. True-TSs are not gender-variant, but gender conformist. When other cisgenders use such reasons against us, they misapply them. They do not mean to exclude us, but they wrongly think we are the gender-variant queers who are a threat to their lifestyles and comfort. We are not Cisgenders don’t hate true-TSism, only TGism and other queerness. As soon as TSs can convince the public they are cisgendered and not TGs, and that TSs don’t care for them any more then they do, then TS rights will shoot up overnight. (TG rights is irrelevant to every true-TS, and gay rights is irrelevant to most.) The rest of the mainstream need to see TSs criticizing/rebuking TGs/LGBTs each and every time the issues come up so they can see we are loyal to them, that we EARNED their respect, and that we are not TGs but share the SAME foes, since we are 100% like them in all ways that matter. Remember to ALWAYS think of TSs as CISgendered and mainstream, but with a minor birth defect we all eventually correct if conditions are right, while thinking of TGs as a subset of queer. TGs usually have trouble understanding the TS-specific POV because they wrongly think of TSs as TGs rather than as cisgendered and try to use the TG framework to understand us when that requires the cisgendered one. A TS who opposes TGs is no different than any other cisgendered person who opposes TGs.

True-TSs do activism to, but always anonymously or when read, and always in a manner which is not inclusive of TGs nor LGBTs. The overall goal for all true-TSs is to be invisible. It is to make sure TS children have their birth defect corrected young, for them to never be outed, and for them to live as though they never had it, with no LGBT/TG connection nor support at all, nor anyone assuming they are either. True-TSs tend to have more rights in places where transition for true-TSs is legal, but homosexuality and recreational TGism are outlawed. I would not impose that here, however. Not all of us are capable of living stealth and never being read. When we get read, we need people to understand that we are women with a birth condition and not men in dresses (“blokes in frocks” as said on the other sided of the pond) nor a part of the TG nor LGBT community in any way – the same right that most GG women take for granted.

http://purplespeaks.wordpress.com/ Stephanie Adams

Transsexuals are not transgendered, and true-TSs don’t care about “gender expression.” TSs correct their birth defects and move on with life. Transgender was a label made up to abuse transsexuals and to destroy ALL the rights they earned. TSs once had the ability to correct their birth records and marry as straight women. Thanks to TGs, TSs cannot correct their birth records anymore, and must marry as gay men. The whole notion of “gender expression” is what only queers care about and which harms every true transsexual. If your “gender expression” doesn’t match your neurology, then you you deserve discrimination. Rights should only come from conformity. Rights have always been a reward for conformity.

Transgenders are men who electively change their gender role for no good reason, while transsexuals transition their physical sex to match who they are.

Face it. TSs will oppose TGs as long as you lie and pretend that TSs are TGs. That is like lumping those on medication for medical reasons (TSs) in with those who misuse medicine to get high (TGs). TSs have a valid need to transition, TGs choose too, and always for a perverted or attention-getting reason. TGs choose to be queers, while TSs transition to stop being queers and freaks. ALL true-TSs transition to destroy gender variance and conform to cisgendered values. ALL TGs partially “transition” for sexual reasons, perversion, attention, bug-chasing, and closet homosexuality (“It isn’t gay if I wear a dress…”).

You don’t care for TG rights or you would stop maliciously lying and saying that TSs are a type of TG. Saying TSs are a type of TG is a sure way to lose TG rights, and as long as you call one TS a type of TG or queer, true-TSs will do WHATEVER it takes to make sure TGs lose rights, even if they lose their own in the process. It is all about the principal of the matter and ONLY preop and postop true-TSs speaking for preop and postop true-TSs. Make up your mind. Either you are a true-TS who opposes TGs, or you are a TG man whose surgery is a mistake and self-mutilation. If you support TGs, you are not a TS nor any other type of mainstream woman.
http://purplespeaks.wordpress.com/ Stephanie Adams

We don’t transition to gain privilege. We transition because ALL persons are born privileged. TGs choose to loose all privilege and become queers and victims. We transition fully to gain the SAME rights as OTHER mainstream, born-female, cisgendered women. We refuse to have the queers take our rights and privilege from us and collectively ration it back out to us.

If every non-op TG and LGBT were to die in a mass suicide, TSs would instantly have full rights and mainstream privilege overnight.
http://www.facebook.com/CynthiaP.Bussell Cyndi Bussell

I know this is a dead thread but here we go anyways…..

I am transsexual. I ally with the transgender umbrela. Transsexual separtists do not speak for me. I speak for myself and I am under the TG umbrela.

Sorry to those TS who disagree, but you do not own the TS designation. Those of us who suffer from this evil birth defect share the TS.
So long as there are women with a transsexual history who are happy to be under the TG umbrela you can not extracate all TS from the TG.
That is not your right to make choices for me.

If you do not want under the umbrela, then you are not under it. Carry on, have a good day. Why are you even bothering those of us who are under it? You want me out in the rain with you? Why?
I refuse to let anyone tell me what I can or can not identify as.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Denise-Norris/100001133926986 Denise Norris

Cindi – Threads like this are never dead!

Try this post for some more on Transgender History:

http://transgriot.blogspot.com/2011/12/on-being-transgender.html
Denise Norris

Good threads never die, Cindi.

You might link this post out last week by me:

http://transgriot.blogspot.com/2011/12/on-being-transgender.html
Girl

Why would you as a transsexual, whose birthright is in the mainstream community take up for the very folks who are stealing your rights from you? Stockholm Syndrome? As another poster said, they steal your rights from you and then try to ration them back like they are doing you a favor.

Actually, only TSs who are not a part of the TG community and who needs full assimilation own the term. You have no right to steal our term from us to try to make you look better than you are and to try to harm us.

So which is it? Are you a TG or a TS? Make up your mind as they are mutually exclusive and you cannot be both.

Actually, no extrication needs to be done. Any “TS” who identifies with or supports TGs *IS* a TG and not a TS. So by being in the TG community, you are excluding yourself from the TS-Only & Mainstream Community. Please don’t hide behind our label. If you are already a TG, then you don’t need ours. You are either a mainstream woman with a birth defect, or a transgender man in a dress. All true-TS women are born with the need to live in the gender binary and be seen 100% the same as other women.

So are you a self-hating TS (before or after correction surgery) with Stockholm Syndrome or a TG liar man in drag (with or without mutilation surgery)?

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000938443650 Plum Gurly

Trans community is short for transgender community. I am proudly support the Mainstream & TS community, rather than the Trans(gender) Community, and have 9 times as many allies.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000938443650 Plum Gurly

Prince didn’t coin the term TG. The term prince coined was transgenderist. TG may be as old as Christine Jorgenson. When TSs fight TG inclusion, that is not infighting, as TSs have NO rightful place in the TG community. TSs are not fighting other TSs, but TG slavers who won’t leave them alone. TSs and TGs have almost opposite values, needs, and strategies. The only way TSs can fight the way they want and get the rights they want, all without fighting for things that offend them is to strike out alone. As much as the religious right are against even true-TSs by extension, we have more in common with them than TGs. TSs have never been truly welcomed in TG groups. The first TS support organization was overrun by gay men within the first year and the TSs were all asked to leave the group they started. Since then, True-TSs have been shouted into silence in all TG spaces, abused, told they don’t exist, told to shut up, had their materials destroyed, outed, accused of being gay men in drag, and so on. There needs to be a network of TS-only groups and organizations which have mainstream values and are inclusive of the general public. That is who TSs are most like – the general public.
Unchainedaura

and some realise the TG community saves transsexual lives too by being there when many seperatists would dismiss the person who may or may not yet pass, all seperatism does is harm the community. Some peoplke refuse to go stealth as it feels wrong to take away the bridge we all crossed and leave the poor kid behind us to fend for themselves.

Don’t Call Me Transgender!

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